King's Cross Junction consultation 2014

at first sight this seems, in many ways, worse than what's currently there. I'll certainly be going to the drop-in sessions and make my views known.

Sorry I just don't go anywhere near that junction. I have north and south work arounds that are fine for me.

I agree that it seems worse in many ways.
The most significant new feature is the so-called "dedicated crossing facility for cyclists travelling from Gray’s Inn Road into York Way". But that is compromised because it takes pavement space from peds in an area where they need it, and because using the "dedicated crossing facility" will often take longer to use than riding in the general traffic lane. It's by no means clear that Deep Lee would have chosen to use it.

I think we should aim to get this thrown out and re-worked in the light of the new LCDS and the recent mayoral announcement "£290 million project will make 33 of London’s most notorious roundabouts and gyratory systems less threatening to cyclists" (http://goo.gl/Unn4ct) - which includes Kings X.

Perhaps not all 33 junctions are planned to have the gyratories removed? It seems odd for the current proposals to come forward if such a major change is also being planned.

I cannot claim to be an expert on this junction as only an occaisonal visitor, but I absolutely agree that the two lanes into one from Grays Inn Road to York Way is daft.

An idea: Reduce this to one lane, as commented in the introduction to this thread.

Use the northern most lane on this 4 lane bit of Grays Inn Road for a longer delivery bay with the pavement built out at both ends to create more pedestrian space. This then replaces the delivery bay on Pentonville Road to the north of the triangle of buildings over the Thameslink and Underground Lines shown in the TfL plans.

That then frees space on the south side of Pentonville Road to run a contra flow cycle lane extending the bus lane from Angel west, so cyclists continue down Pentonville Road (but off road) to the York Way junction and the new cycle crossing.

At this point the reduction of the Grays Inn Rd > York Way to a single lane allows for a wider pavement and a better alignment of the planned cycle crossing, which can be wider. Our westbound riders cross here to get to the south side of Euston Road and thus avoid the entire south side of the gyratory. It may be that the cycle crossing of Euston Road has to operate in 2 phases to allow bikes to pass east to west and south to north, but I don't have any clear idea on the actual flows. But my idea allows much more room on the central islands at this point to creat beter layouts thanks to the single lane to York Way for road vehicles.

Only cyclists coming up the Grays Inn Road from further south need to use the south side of the gyratory and there is no need for any cycle lanes on Kings Cross Bridge.

Does this separation of bikes from the gyratory make sense?

Adam

Next Thursday I shall be attending on behalf of Camden Cyclists TfL's 'stakeholders initial briefing' meeting on the proposed North-South Cycleway that is to run from St. George's Circus over Blackfriars Bridge and eventually through this very junction we are discussing and on up York Way.
There seems to be a major lack of joined-up thinking - how can these 'interim improvements' that we all agree are unsafe even for today's limited use (because most cyclists will make a big effort to find alternative routes avoiding the junction) be of relevance when there is an intention to bring a major cycle route (the second Cycleway comparable in caacity and quality to the proposed Embankment route) through here?

Tfl's typical low-res map without street names shows the proposed N-S route in blue here: http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/roadusers/central-london-grid-map.pdf
I have redrawn the route as an editable Google map here: http://goo.gl/sV64cO
Anyone can edit - please add markers with your comments (and name) if you wish. You can even add additional layers.
Adam perhaps you could sketch your proposals in another layer?

Adam's idea for a contraflow along Pentonville Road is very interesting. The main objection I foresee is that the Lighthouse building is about to be converted into a Co-op supermarket. This will mean the whole block will attract more pedestrians who will want pavement space, and there will be a need for delivery space. The plans presumably already specify where the delivery gates are. I'd assumed they were on the north side but someone could perhaps check this.
(Adam - are you the Adam Edwards who used to live in Cholmeley Park?)

We've got confirmation from TfL that these proposals are an "interim scheme". There is a feasibility study of the King’s Cross gyratory systems but that seems to be in the very early stages.

I think I've got my head around Adam's idea now and I agree with Richenda - the contra-flow at the bottom of Pentonville Road is interesting and a definite benefit to westbound cyclists heading for Euston Road (not many I would guess because of the horrendous conditions on that road). It would also provide a much safer route for people such as Deep Lee who was heading up York Way for the University of the Arts on Goodsway and other destinations on the railway lands (new Camden town hall, Google, etc. ). That cycle traffic is going to grow substantially.
It would be important to have a protected right turn at York Way (a dedicated signal stage).

We have been at loggerheads with TfL for ages over the two lanes merging to one at Greys Inn/York Way. We aren't going to give in but they are intransigent based on their 'modelling results' :-(

See previous post for my suggested contraflow along Pentonville Road.

I didn't know about the planned supermarket. Perhaps the answer there would be that 2.00am to 4.00am parking is allowed in the road with deliveries accross the cycle path? But it also raises an issue about why a supermarket can be built in the middle of what is effectively a roundabout as it introduces additional hazards to a dangerous area. Surely permission should not have been granted?

I agree the Euston Road is not a nice place to cycle but the sort of journey my route should facilitiate is someone coming down from Angel who goes through KX and then turns left into Bellgrove St to head for Bloomsbury.

The York Way two lanes simply do not work in reality as anyone standing by the junction and watching would see. Pedestrians don't behave like computers!

I find incredible that this is seen as an interim scheme. Perhaps they need reminding of the "interim" booking office at Kings Cross station build circa 1970 and final removed circa 2012! If this scheme happens Boris will say job done and nothing more then happens for 30 years.

Finally, I am sadly not an ex resident of Cholmeley Park. I live in Hatfield and am secretary to both Welwyn Hatfield Cycle Forum (bike ride next Saturday folks!) and Cycle Herts. I used to commute from KX to Kings College at Chancery Lane so have some experience of KX by Brompton. I'm now a cross Barnet commuter as I work at Middlesex Uni and commute to/from Oakleigh Park station. it's not a glamorous as KX!

Adam,
Thanks for adding the contraflow lane to the map. I've coloured it red and set the default to 'satellite view' and it gives quite a good impression of your idea.

Getting across from the end of Pentonville Road to the south side of the Euston Road/Greys Inn junction would need a gap in the pedestrian triangle and a signal stage, but it might be possible to share it with a ped stage since the cycle track doesn't appear to intersect with any ped crossing.

I work in the area and avoid the junction like the plague - let me know if there are any informal counts/observations that would be useful.

Adam's suggestion of the Pentonville Road contraflow is one I have often pondered too. Its a great idea and I would hope this can be incorporated. Using the spare lane heading to York Way for additional loading seems like a very good plan.

On a smaller scale, I would like to see are more routes for cycles to avoid having to go round more than 1 section of the full gyratory. These would be
- Clearer connection from Northdown Street to Kings Cross Road
- Direct connection from Kings Cross Bridge to St Chads Street
I have added these as light orange lines to the google map

The first (Line 6) would effectively be an informal crossing, with the traffic controlled by the existing lights at the top of Kings Cross Road. It would need a cycle pocket in the middle of Pentonville Road and then a cycle track to cross a wide section of pavement (this is not heavily used by pedestrains)

The second (Line 5) would take from the pavement in front of the pool hall to provide a southbound contraflow as far as St Chads Place. A crossing at this point would allow access to the traffic calmed area around Argyle Square. I would expect that this would also be controlled by the existing lights but perhaps with a shadow set of lights and a box junction covering the St Chads Place / Street

Both these would allow those coming from Caledonian road avoid the worst of the gyratory.

There are also minor things in terms of lane sizes, entries and ASL placements but the big things I think have been covered

Both of Rostopher's lines (5 and 6 on George's editable Google map here: http://goo.gl/sV64cO ) look good to me. I've seen cyclists doing line 5 and under current conditions it involves using the ped crossing and then cycling against the traffic on the wrong side of the road. Certainly a respected yellow box would be needed.

Yes indeed to Northdown St link (line 5).

Re line 6 Caledonian Road, the alternative would be a right turn into the Edwards Contraflow (needs a clever way to do this) and then continuation along Birkenhead St. This means no need for the right turn into St Chads St and concentrates the bikes all into the same route.

Having said that, if the Edwards Contraflow is rejected, then Line 6 becomes essential, with St Chad's St and then Argyle St signed as routes to avoid Kings Cross to the south.

As regards the North South route TfL are planning. What is supposed to happen North South as all the roads it runs on are one way south to north? Is there a parallel route or is the plan for a massive contraflow? The reason for asking is that too would have implications for the junction if there is to be a southbound cycle lane coming out of York Way. Where would it then go?

Cheers

Adam

I agree that the Pentonville Road contra-flow should:
a) Be more of a priority
b) Negate some of the need for the Caledonia Road/St Chad St link
It's probably more of a back-up option, which might be more in-keeping with the "Interim" nature of the redesign. However, it does put a lot of cycle traffic concentrated on the island at the end of Euston road - would need some clear and clever phasing to get this to work in the context of the rest of the junction.

In terms of the longer term plan and the N-S "superhighway". My guess would be that it would be a single bi-directional track on York Way, at least as far as Goodsway - there are no entrances here and the bus-stands would need only a minimal island of separation on the Eastern side of Kings Cross station. But this funnels even more traffic through the current traffic island. The other option would be to send the southbound track via Caledonian Road and have an extended contraflow "Line 6" through to Fredrick St.

Also did anyone get the chance to go to the drop-in session yesterday? I missed it and would be good to hear any feedback.

Richenda, John and I spent more than an hour talking to TfL planners at the walk-in meeting on this last night. The TfL planners (Joanne Elmer, Claire Alleguen, Lisa Young) appeared responsive to our comments and suggestions but they didn't seem to accept our two main points:

- the current plan creates several unacceptable conflicts between cycles and pedestrians - the only workable safe solution to getting cyclists from Gray's Inn Rd to York Way is in a direct segregated lane protected in time from left hooks by motors proceeding to Euston Road.
They appeared to take a couple of general points that we made:
- if they can't do the above, it would be better to provide routings to avoid these roads where possible (as proposed in this thread).
- they have done nothing to improve the southbound routing

We discussed the 3 ideas that have emerged on this thread:
- They said they would reconsider the Northdown Street to Kings Cross Road (a previous scheme involving an on-pavement link from Pentonville to King's Cross Rd had been rejected by the nearby RNIB office but they accepted that an on-road routing might be possible).
- they will look at the Caledonian Rd to St Chad Street link as suggested by Rostopher
- they were dubious about the Pentonville Road contraflow on the grounds that the loading area would be difficult to remove. But we asked them to check on that.

We pointed out that the mandatory cycle lanes on Pentonville Road and the short stretch at the bottom of York Way would need to be segregated to meet LCC standards. They mentioned the possibility of installing some Bloomsbury Way-style 'wands' for segregation.

One of the TfL planners (Lisa Young) stated that TfL is actively working towards the removal of the entire Kings X gyratory (Lisa is coordinating this). She did mention some idea of a timescale between 2016 and 2018 but I'm afraid I don't recall it precisely. She also said that a project to look at north-south pedestrian routes across Euston Road would start soon.

Richenda has made two 30-40 second videos that illustrate very well the dangers and conflicts in which pedestrians and cyclists find themselves at the junction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9oVE7q_guc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG4z1rqw1GM

Both videos show how the two lanes heading for York Way do not work, particularly the lorry v bikes in the second.

The York Way junction should be single lane northbound.

Adam

Living Streets' local group will be hosting its annual supporter conference in All Saints Street on 21 June, and we have invited Lisa Young and Joanne Elmer to walk around the Kings Cross gyratory / town centre site with us. Local MP Emily Thornberry will attend. Perhaps some cycle campaigners would join us?
http://www.livingstreets.org.uk/make-a-change/annual-supporters-conference-2014

regards, Greg
http://livingstreetskx.blogspot.co.uk/